Tuesday, August 12, 2014

MGTOW Don't Owe "Society" Anything

Here we go again, another man shaming men to man-up-and-marry for the big win while completely ignoring the past 20 to 40 years of evidence as to what happens to men when they actually do make that mistake.

Men's Movement: Flipside of Feminism?

While I'm not interested in what he has to say about MRAs and PUAs I do want to address the errors directed at MGTOW.

The MGTOW have a slogan "My Wallet, My Choice" which is a way of saying that men should be able to get women pregnant and avoid the consequences, having nothing to do with his seed.

MGTOW don't advocate pumping-and-dumping, that is what PUAs do but it is our wallets and it is our choice to avoid both dating and pumping-and-dumping.

It's preposterous, and something a healthy society wouldn't allow.

And there is a lot of things a healthy man wouldn't allow this "society" to do to him given the opportunity to avoid it. While some taxation is necessary. The complete financial confiscation through the Divorce / Family court industry is what is preposterous.

So we opt out of the system.

We don't get married, we don't shack up and we don't knock females up.

Feminists are told to love fashion, shoes, handbags and celebrity, as well as the obvious drinking and casual sex. The obsession with clothing and appearance is taken to whole new levels. The array of beauty products and options for cosmetic surgery and procedures available to today's young female is staggering, and creates a deep dissatisfaction in young women who view themselves as inadequate, because they cannot live up to the impossible standards set by the media.

No person, male or female can be subverted simply by being told anything unless they wanted to be subverted in the first place. Go try tell a Feminist to forgo university and stay at home with children. Be sure to ad that it's for the children.

See how well that goes over.

Women are suckered in by this false view family life as boring and useless, and also develop unrealistic expectations. It's a pit of misery, for both sexes and exacerbates all the existing problems.

They were suckered alright and I have always said that the joke was on them. They bought the lie, they wanted to have it both ways and they still do.

Both foster self-love and hyper-individualism.

MGTOW do have self respect which is not to be confused with the self obsessed narcissism of Feminism.

Humans are not solitary animals, we are designed to cooperate with each other for the good of the whole.

MGTOW are individualistic as men should be but that is something Feminists certainly aren't and absolutely loath. That being they are Collectivists believing what's theirs is theirs and what's men's is theirs too.

When we deviate from this, we see nothing but gross unhappiness and the anesthetics needed to cope with it - drugs, alcohol, materialism, promiscuity, gambling, and so on.

I can go my own way from those disorders as well, be perfectly happy in the process and I'm sure plenty of other men would agree.

A man cannot produce offspring without a woman, and vice-versa. Therefore, without solid and strong bonds, where will children come from?

Don't worry, they'll come and feel free to bang out as many as you like.

Casual sex is often negated by birth-control methods like abortion. Babies and children need a stable, loving, two-parent home.

Agreed, now try preaching that one to the Feminists who aim to corral children in a village where no men, especially their fathers are allowed.

Men cannot abdicate their social responsibilities and be considered men.

Men don't have any responsibilities they don't agree to accept. To force them on men against their will was considered slavery in the past. Which is exactly what Feminists want.

For men to be their slaves.  

It's time to turn this around, and not be afraid of the agenda, and refuse to play its silly little games.

I agree, the only winning move for men in this silly little game is not to play.

MGTOW... How about a nice game of chess?


Elusive Wapiti said...

The author makes a few good points, but in erecting such strawmen as these...

"The MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) have terms such as "mangina" and "white knight" for men with families, implying that these men are in a state of servitude."

...really detract from his argument and evince that he really doesn't understand his subject very well.

I am a divorced and remarried father of four. Never has a MGTOW type called me a mangina or WK. At most MGTOWers recognize that I'm taking a risk in this present socio-cultural-environment that they would rather not bear.

They respect me for that, and I respect them for their sober analysis of the situation.

Like you, this also caught my eye:

"The MGTOW have a slogan "My Wallet, My Choice" which is a way of saying that men should be able to get women pregnant and avoid the consequences, having nothing to do with his seed. It's preposterous, and something a healthy society wouldn't allow."

The author's correct...no healthy society would allow it. But we don't have a healthy society. BTW where is the outrage directed at the feminist movement and their overwhelming support for at-will abortion up to birth? This barbaric practice enables women to get pregnant and avoid consequences too. At least with C4M, babies don't have to die. Not so with "my body, my choice", as 1M innocent human lives are snuffed out in the US annually.

Where's the outrage?

Last, in response to this:

"Men cannot abdicate their social responsibilities and be considered men"

I respond that women cannot loose the restraints on their sexuality and still be considered women.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the article on the blog roll on the side of your page from Alpha Game titled 'Saving civilization is not "manning up"'.

Dave said...

I suppose that men who "go their own way" see no reason to have children, since those kids would simply go *their* own ways when old Dad needs their help.

But if you can build a location-independent business, find a subservient woman, and settle down in a country where she is out of her element and dependent on you, this is well worth doing. Raising children, even disabled ones, is immensely satisfying.

Or pretend to be gay (so no one can criticize you), "marry" a man who lives nearby, make surrogate babies in a foreign country, and take turns looking after them. This is not ideal because, besides having breasts, women are naturally better at caring for babies.

Cybro said...

Yes I have read it and the thing about so called Alpha's / PUAs is that they can't accept the fact that MGTOW have no desire to shift through the drama anymore. Gaming emotionally disturbed chicks can turn into a real nightmare and no amount of back handed shaming or arm chair quarterbacking is going to get me back on that playing field. Try breaking things off with a chick who is crazy and you'll know what I mean. Forget it, guys have been murdered by crazy chicks for attempting to flee the crazy chicks. Makes me wonder if these Alpha / PUAs are even grounded in reality. Either way I'll continue to go my own way thanks.

Anonymous said...

Traditionalists like this guy bemoan the fact that their lifestyle choices are being increasingly rejected. Because they cannot themselves be wrong, the blame must be assessed on those not emulating this self-appointed superior being.

The Earth is well on its way to being inhabited by 8 billion people attempting to survive in an increasingly polluted world with decreasing supplies of healthy food and potable water. One might think that foregoing procreation would thus be an act of valor in defense of those who choose to procreate, in that the offspring of such people would have an increased chance at procreating themselves.

But no! Marry, have kids, and hasten the end of human life on Earth.

A.B. Prosper said...

Makow sounds like another brand of communitarian collectivist to me.

As for MGTOW, its not exactly new either, Corinthians 7:9 basically lauds this behavior as long the person is celibate and can exercise self control. Its actually fine for Christians who take the faith seriously

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

I think the raw refusal of MGTOW men to play a rigged game has
a lot of people up in arms .Its right in the face, the revolution of NO! and the establishment fears that MGTOW will spread.

It probably won't become dominant but if it became widespread, they fear ,not without some truth ,its a civilizational end game.

You either change the social contract to something that suits men (and non feminists) better or accept the consequences of economic and population decline.

Alright the 3rd option is there, you can bring in more natal immigrants as we've been doing but at most they'll but you a bit of time.

In the end either they'll assimilate to the values leaving you at zero or they'll drag the economy and society down to the level they fled from. You can't win.

US wise they seem to be doing both, dragging the economy down and assimilating to the sexual values. So long Hispanic family in a generation or three and the US gets a nice does of the social attributes of the third world . Oh and more ethnic strife too.

Its lose, lose.

All that said I suspect in the end it will work itself out, the economic structures that support the current system are toast no matter what and that means extended families are going to be the default. Its already starting and I expect it to grow

The existing systems will hate this for a lot of reasons but it will be good for actual people.

Also somewhat tangential, a frustration I have with the men's movement and guys like this is the lack of understanding re: birthrates.

Its not all screwed up feminism in action. Some of it is the fact that 50% of the population of take for example many European cities have jack for income. A U6 unemployment and poverty rate that high is hard on family formation. The US isn't much better off with wages down roughly half since 1973.

Decent people don't want to raise kids in poverty and they expect an adjusted standard of living at least as good or better than Mom and Dads.

Fixing that with women in the work force is a big job that seems to not be on anyone's radar. and women aren't leaving if they can possibly help it, baring some pretty heinous replacement state anyway.

Good or bad we live in a society driven by economic needs, not human ones and appeals to moral authority aren't going to work on a wide scale. People are onto the elites tricks, well the educated ones are anyway which is good enough.

Cybro said...

That is exactly right and I have often said MGTOW is nothing new. Many a religious order have started by individual men who have gone their own way from a corrupt society or civilization. One of the first was the Monastery of Saint Anthony in Egypt who went his own way in 285 AD which is still going strong as of today. So you see MGTOW does work and lasts over time where as empires do not.